Are Transient Shapers a must on kicks? - Page 2

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Ibunshi

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04-09-2012 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risc_Terilia

A few of you seem to be confusing a transient shaper with a normal adsr in a sampler. With a transient shaper you can "add in" transience that wasn't there in the initial sample. It's more akin to a compressor than an adsr envelope.

I've worked with producers that reached for the TS immediately when they loaded up the kick sample without actually evaluating whether the kick drum needed it. When working on techno i've used a TS to actually make the kick less transient.

Its not exactly the same, but the effect of using adsr to shape a layer, duplicate or not of a drumhit, into a short snap, and then rasing the volume of that little snap sound is very similar to, say increasing the attack on something like the spl transient designer.. If you want snap in the same way, you can do that manually in a basic sampler with a duplicate layer, but because you can choose what to layer and use as snap, you got pretty much infinitely more choice and control when it comes to flavor and sound of the transient itself, you dont get that with an automated process like with the transient designer.. I suggested to SPL that they make a multiband transient designer and gave a few reasons, and they said they would discuss it.. Doubt it would happen, but that would be sweet

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#11

ja-ki

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04-09-2012 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibunshi

I suggested to SPL that they make a multiband transient designer and gave a few reasons, and they said they would discuss it.. Doubt it would happen, but that would be sweet

izotope alloy has this

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#12

Ibunshi

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04-09-2012 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ja-ki

izotope alloy has this

Sweet, i'd assume you can then smoothen things like hihats in a drum recording without snares losing to much snap.. And makes it easier to stay away from the samishness you can get from treating all frequences the same..

Cheers, gonna have a read about that one

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#13

Risc_Terilia

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04-09-2012 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibunshi

Yeah sure, I was saying people seem to be confused about the actual distinction.

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rorymc

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04-09-2012 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibunshi

best thing about the ni maschine that i use is that every pad you have a adsr which is very quick and easy to use, really helps shaping drum sounds to something quite different.

i never really played with the adsr's too much before and now use it on pretty much every drum sound and break quite heavily.
those with emu samplers have got 2 of each adsr, can get some awesome shaping going on and when you put the adsr to filter freq or resonance you can get some freaky basslines going with ease.

#15

polymass

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04-09-2012 01:44 PM

There's loads of sample packs that had a treatment of either parallel compression (compressed signal and full transient layered) or transient shapers.

Like mentioned before, it's often much more interesting on percussion groups etc.

Flux has a nice free transient shaper

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Soulstice

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04-09-2012 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sustenance

not really, kick drums where kick drums before shapers. You can get a similar result with a compressor, ideally "new-york compression". Just route your kick to one of the sends, measure the original volume at its peak on a meter or spectrum analyzer, and put a compressor on the routed send channel (preferable one with a fast response time). Completely brick wall the compressor and slowly adjust the attack outward until you get the desired punch. This will emphasis the early transients most on the compressor. You could probably split hairs and say that this is separate in function than a shaper but it can get similar results to what you are requesting. You could also be totally lazy and just layer two kicks, one that has a long release and one that is quick that has some "punch" and get results to if you do not mind the sound you get from layering kicks. Or you could just download the Vengeance packs like everyone else you dummy. Check it out!

How is parallel compression the same as a transient designer?! I could understand how the attack of a compressor in series could make the initial transient more snappy, but NY compression is a layer of what you already have, and is only used quietly in the background, therefore your main hit would still not have the desired attack?!

#17

ja-ki

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04-09-2012 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibunshi

that's correct! But I never use it, not a big fan of transient shaping as I always loose control over the dynamics. I prefer gating, although it's a different thing, it's more of my liking. Also it's not that static like transient shaping, as you can deactivate the gate and the whole drumsound comes through, I used that in the track in my sig (which has a horrible mixdown ;))

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#18

godwin24

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04-09-2012 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ja-ki

izotope alloy has this

Also Waves TransX multi (as opposed to the wideband version)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulstice

No you are correct, it's not the same - but you can achieve the same effect. You can use the parallel chain to first EQ out some bottom end, then with a medium-slow attack, compress the piss out of the sample so you have basically just the initial thwack of the sample, then bring this in with the original sample. Basically gives you control over the initial transient's volume by bringing in more or less of your parallel chain. the main hit wouldn't have the desired attack if you muted your parallel chain, but you're adding it in separately which can give you more control than the transient shaper.

I found using something like smexoscope can really help getting these kind of things right as you can visually see the attack portion increasing/decreasing

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SourBattery

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04-09-2012 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risc_Terilia

It's more akin to a compressor than an adsr envelope.

That is not true, because a transient shaper is based on a envelope follower. So it has more incommon with the ADSR in your sampler/synth then a compressor. The main difference between the envelope in your sampler and a transient shaper is in how they are triggered.

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Last edited by SourBattery; 04-09-2012 at 04:21 PM..

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