avaaz campaign to save the NHS

Mar 15, 2012

  1. luthatron \o/ Lord Wavey \o/

    luthatron
    42,245 posts
    Since Feb 3, 2004
    "We have just days to save the NHS. Opposition from doctors, nurses and patients has rocked the government. Our massive outcry now can persuade undecided members of the House of Lords to say no to the bill on Monday and get the government to publish its report on the risks of these changes. Sign here to save the NHS:



    The battle to save the NHS is now entering its final hours. David Cameron and Andrew Lansley seem determined to drag Britain’s most famous institution to its grave, but if we now stand together we can get the House of Lords to stop this bill in its tracks.

    Public outrage is gripping the country as the Prime Minister persists with a bill that would dismantle the NHS and open the field to private companies. The government refuses to publish its internal report on the risks of the reforms, one reason among many why thousands of health professionals and many politicians oppose the changes. If we now build a massive outcry we can sway our last line of defence -- the House of Lords -- to save the NHS.

    Let’s call on the undecided members in the House of Lords to keep the knives off our NHS and ensure we can all read the official risk report -- sign here and circulate. Our voices will ramp up the pressure as we deliver our petition when we reach key milestones between now and Monday:

    http://www.avaaz.org/en/last_chance_to_save_the_nhs/?vl

    this one too:

    https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page...r_NHS_Petition.

    The coalition promised no top-down reorganisation of the National Health Service. Yet it's brought in a bill that threatens to turn large chunks of the NHS over on a plate to private health care companies and cost-cutting consultants, threatening a tidal wave of privatisation that will leave our health system expensive and fragmented, with many of us getting only low-quality care. Citizens are outraged -- according to the latest polls, over half of us want the new bill to be scrapped.

    Public opposition has already delayed the bill and forced several amendments, but the government is refusing to halt the reforms, wrongly insisting that opponents are just a minority group of disgruntled health care professionals and political opponents. The fight for the NHS now depends on the 200 members of the House of Lords who don't belong to a political party. They aren't used to public scrutiny, so if we target them now, we can win and ensure that any reforms of our precious health service are done in concert with health professionals and patients.

    We only have until Monday to tip the balance. The recommendation to delay the debate until after the risk register has been released will throw the NHS a lifeline and allow us all to see the likely impact of this bill. Sign the petition, and send widely.

    http://www.avaaz.org/en/last_chance_to_save_the_nhs/?vl

    Britain is proud of the NHS, which has saved countless lives and won admirers across the world. Let’s act now and ensure our health care system stays free for all.

    With hope,

    Sam, Antonia, Alex, Alice, Jamie, Ricken and the rest of the Avaaz team

    More information:

    NHS reforms: Lib Dem divisions resurface as bill returns to parliament (The Guardian)
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/mar/13/nhs-reforms-lib-dem-divisions?newsfeed=true

    Time is running out to save the NHS (The Mirror)
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/time-is-running-out-to-help-the-nhs-760964

    NHS costs soar as GPs focus on health reforms (The Guardian)
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/mar/12/nhs-reform-gps-too-busy?

    Cabinet 'revolts against health reforms' (The Telegraph)
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9073613/Cabinet-revolts-against-health-reforms.html

    Cameron should scrap NHS bill and drop Lansley, says influential Tory blog (The Guardian)
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/feb/10/cameron-scrap-nhs-bill-lansley

    NHS Reforms: More Than Half Of Voters Want To See Changes Dropped (Huffington Post)
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...th-and-social-care-bill_n_1289969.html?ref=uk


    i'm sure people will just post "petitions don't do anything" but the previous avaaz petitions haev actually worked.
  2. Attreyu The Traffic Controller

    Attreyu
    10,389 posts
    Since Mar 17, 2005
    Let the plebs rot if they can't afford it.
  3. luthatron \o/ Lord Wavey \o/

    luthatron
    42,245 posts
    Since Feb 3, 2004
    edgey and contraversial stuff there attreyu!:twothumbs:
  4. Attreyu The Traffic Controller

    Attreyu
    10,389 posts
    Since Mar 17, 2005
    It's true though. Why should health be cheap or free AND quality just because some don't actually afford it ? With enough cuts and privatisation, things should be sorted at a financial level.

    Sorry, I'm against socialism at all costs. Notions like the Social State "responsable" for the wellfare of its citizens. "Solidarity". "Redistribution of wealth". Fuck off. Perform or die.
  5. luthatron \o/ Lord Wavey \o/

    luthatron
    42,245 posts
    Since Feb 3, 2004
  6. Contayjen

    Contayjen
    5,814 posts
    Since Sep 21, 2006
    The NHS is a bloated whale of an organisation with good points and bad point imo.

    Good: Having local GPs who can diagnose minor ailments/prescribe medicine. And its free of course (although those of us with jobs have to buy the medicine, albeit at heavily subsidised prices.)

    Bad: Hospitals having a tendency to employ lazy, ignorant staff who can't speak English and drug-addicts. And 5-year waiting lists for many common ailments. Because it has to operate on very little money.

    One trip to a private hospital should be enough to convince anybody that there has to be a better way, although there is always the danger that you are looked upon as a cash-cow if you have medical insurance and you might end up having treatments that aren't really cost-effective.

    Something needs to change, but what to do?
  7. monkey man

    monkey man
    6,032 posts
    Since Jun 15, 2001

    Trolling? Sterilised bullet to the head administered to those classified as under-achieving?

    "A decent provision for the poor is the true test of civilization."
    ~Samuel Johnson, Boswell: Life of Johnson
  8. monkey man

    monkey man
    6,032 posts
    Since Jun 15, 2001
    Privatising British Rail didn't really help though, did it?
  9. Contayjen

    Contayjen
    5,814 posts
    Since Sep 21, 2006
    There are no poor people in the UK, and this probably true of Europe in general. When I see people begging at the side of the road for food, instead of stuffing free burgers into their faces, I might change my view.
  10. Attreyu The Traffic Controller

    Attreyu
    10,389 posts
    Since Mar 17, 2005
    I don't agree that one should be forced into helping the less fortunate through taxes or that the State exists in order to help its citizens (the welfare state model). I'm all for minimal state and extensive free market up to the point of absolute libertarianism or anarcho-capitalism.
  11. Contayjen

    Contayjen
    5,814 posts
    Since Sep 21, 2006
    Not really. Its like the government has a vested interest in making everything shit that once worked.

    The private sector has shown its incapable of handling itself. Power companies have just been slapped on the wrist for their scamming and the banks are partly nationalised already. I think things are probably being better off nationalised, but long-term efficiency needs to be a goal.
  12. Villain68

    Villain68
    8,106 posts
    Since Sep 29, 2005
    Wow.

    What a horrid little man you are.
  13. driver unknown

    driver unknown
    9,014 posts
    Since Feb 19, 2004
    All the haters would sharp shut their mouths when they get sick and the NHS sort them out for free.

    So what if there's a waiting list, its better than having to remortgage your house just for an operation.
  14. Attreyu The Traffic Controller

    Attreyu
    10,389 posts
    Since Mar 17, 2005
    Oh cry me a river. If you're a simpleton that can't grasp it and resolves everything to "poor people will die, have mercy" way, I recommend you educate yourself on a large range of issues of general interest to our society, from politics to economics and sociology. You fucking hippie.
  15. luthatron \o/ Lord Wavey \o/

    luthatron
    42,245 posts
    Since Feb 3, 2004
    yup.

    the'd stop their faux-libertarian viewpoints pretty quickly i think.
  16. courier RinsingAgentRA

    courier
    34,606 posts
    Since Aug 1, 2003
    Hey fact fans
    Did you know the NHS is the 4th largest employer in the world behind the Chinese People’s Liberation Army, the Wal-Mart supermarket chain and Indian Railways
  17. luthatron \o/ Lord Wavey \o/

    luthatron
    42,245 posts
    Since Feb 3, 2004
    he lives in the UK. his view on the NHS is valid, you don't live in the UK, you are just flapping your jaws trying to sound hard.
  18. courier RinsingAgentRA

    courier
    34,606 posts
    Since Aug 1, 2003
    Attreyu your viewpoint seems to suggest that it's only the poor that require the services of the NHS.
  19. cool mr croc een bolleke alstublieft

    cool mr croc
    30,075 posts
    Since Apr 12, 2004
    something tells me we'd end up paying for the healthcare of the poor anyway, id rather just pay once for national healthcare through tax.
  20. Attreyu The Traffic Controller

    Attreyu
    10,389 posts
    Since Mar 17, 2005
    Au contraire. But it's only the poor that have a problem with it. It's understandable though that you cry about it when you're about to lose a free lunch. The problem is that it's not ethical or fair to pretend that someone else pays it every day, all your life. Also, there's a big difference between entirely nationalised public health systems and semi-private ones where one can choose between the two whilst not breaking the bank. It's not all black or white.

    Luthatron, again, you prove yourself an idiot but not understanding that there's absolutely no logical or reasonable connection between experiencing something and debating it. That's where your trolling fails pathetically. If you don't agree with me, bring forward your own objective arguments. If you can't do that, you lost.
  21. Villain68

    Villain68
    8,106 posts
    Since Sep 29, 2005
    Evil, despicable gnome.
  22. Attreyu The Traffic Controller

    Attreyu
    10,389 posts
    Since Mar 17, 2005
    I'm 6 feet tall.
  23. luthatron \o/ Lord Wavey \o/

    luthatron
    42,245 posts
    Since Feb 3, 2004
    i live in the UK, the money i pay in tax goes towards it, i can use the NHS if i need to (which is rare)

    you don't live in the UK. you don't contribute, it doesn't effect you at all.

    feel free to post pages of bollocks at me while you get more and more angry and post increasingly strange things though.
  24. Neurotoxin

    Neurotoxin
    9,205 posts
    Since Oct 3, 2001
    Fucking lol
  25. Attreyu The Traffic Controller

    Attreyu
    10,389 posts
    Since Mar 17, 2005
    You don't live in Afghanistan, Israel or Iraq, nor did you participated in NATO's or USs military decision making or went on the field, yet you expressed your arguments at length in here. I can go on forever on such examples.

    It doesn't affect me, no, but I can express my opinion on it, without retorting to verbal violence and unprovocated attacks towards others. Right ? Be nice.
  26. luthatron \o/ Lord Wavey \o/

    luthatron
    42,245 posts
    Since Feb 3, 2004
    lol are you playing some sort of victim card now?

    poor ickle lamb.
  27. Fizzik Bonafied Geezer

    Fizzik
    3,855 posts
    Since Mar 3, 2011
    I wanna see a "Luthatron Vs Contayjen Vs Attreyu" deathmatch.
  28. exp_cj

    exp_cj
    4,313 posts
    Since May 13, 2003
    but as a UK citizen and with the UK being part of NATO he is a NATO constituent who has (in theory only) a say in the decisions made by NATO through the representative nature of our democracy.

    Why do you live? What kind of healthcare?
  29. Benj

    Benj
    846 posts
    Since Jul 31, 2004
    Dunno why you're suggesting that people educate themselves when it doesn't seem to have worked for you mate, all you've come out with in this thread is blinkered ideological bullshit.

    I've educated myself in all of the above and a couple of other things too. Everything you've said is anachronistic nonsense that has long been discredited by overwhelming evidence.

    Go fuck yourself with something rusty
  30. yellowbenzene symbiosis glasgow

    yellowbenzene
    5,301 posts
    Since Jul 28, 2004
    :clap:

    Proud NHS doctor here. This bill is going be very damaging to the NHS, for a variety of reasons. Whilst private healthcare firms are capable of doing a good job, the recent PIP breast implant scare has proven that at least some of these firms place profit over patient care.

    Simple procedures such as cataract removal operations and hernia repairs will be farmed out to whoever can do them the cheapest. Care quality will doubtless be driven down and medical training in every speciality will suffer as a result. The NHS as it remains will be left with all the non-profitable cases like complex surgery with long recovery time.

    Andrew Lansley's closeness to lobbyists is well known (even his fucking wife is a drug company lobbyist) and this whole exercise is simply a way of redistributing tax revenues to big business.

    All in all, a nasty business indeed. I don't buy the Tories' promise that this won't result in a two-tier USA-style health care system (which I think is an amoral joke, BTW) and can only be thankful that I live and practise in Scotland, where this isn't happening (yet).

    So yeah, everyone should sign this petition.