Doctors 'should have the right to KILL unwanted or disabled infants'

Mar 1, 2012

  1. Robbo Delicious

    Robbo Delicious
    22,830 posts
    Since Apr 12, 2006
    'Babies are not real people': Female Oxford academic claims doctors 'should have the right to KILL unwanted or disabled infants'

    Philosopher and medical ethicist Francesca Minerva argues that killing a newborn is little different to aborting it in the womb
    Even a healthy baby could have its life snuffed out if the mother decides she can't afford to look after it, Dr Minerva suggested
    Doctor receives death threats and hate calls telling her to 'burn in hell'


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ims-Oxford-academic.html?ICO=most_read_module


    Fair enough I suppose.
  2. ChavXL Drinking the banner ads

    ChavXL
    30,586 posts
    Since Feb 6, 2005
    It does raise a good point, when do we become humans and thus attain human rights/humanity?

    Personally I think it's an important distinction. I'm not anti abortion but I am anti-death penalty. This makes me feel like a big hypocrite and a coward. I'm down with killing unborn children but not heartless murderers.

    Is it the moment that an egg is fertilised?
  3. Contayjen

    Contayjen
    5,814 posts
    Since Sep 21, 2006
    A baby is a human but its not a person. Personalities develop over time, they aren't there at birth. After a few months old however, I think babies could be said to have started becoming 'people'.

    This is a horrible idea but no worse than the ethical hurdles needed to eat meat. We should do it imo. We already have too many people.

    We should also extend it to unemployed people who already have children.*






    *Lutha, go go go!
  4. ChavXL Drinking the banner ads

    ChavXL
    30,586 posts
    Since Feb 6, 2005
    good points Contayjen, would you propose something like a license to breed?

    And no Lutha baiting please, I dont want this excellent thread de-rerailed
  5. luthatron \o/ Lord Wavey \o/

    luthatron
    42,245 posts
    Since Feb 3, 2004
    lol you're so hard and rational contayjen.

    so-called babies i call them, will only grow up to be dolescum!
  6. Tits McGee

    Tits McGee
    439 posts
    Since Jan 4, 2012
    [​IMG]
  7. GoerenZ In a Tea Daze

    GoerenZ
    3,322 posts
    Since Apr 9, 2005
    Only if they're eaten afterwards:smashed:
  8. Sidius

    Sidius
    11,691 posts
    Since Jun 1, 2003
    Only ok if the doctor kills it with their bare hands.
  9. Contayjen

    Contayjen
    5,814 posts
    Since Sep 21, 2006
    Aww shucks.

    But to answer your question, yes I would do that. Or rather (because I think carrot is better than stick) offer greater rewards to those who don't irresponsibly breed, like a lump sum of £5k or something for 20yos without kids who get sterilised or £10k for anyone who gets to 30 without having them yet.
  10. weedsmoker53

    weedsmoker53
    3,745 posts
    Since Aug 27, 2010
    She does have a point though. They arent really people until after they cocoon.
  11. CounterPoint Nitrite Records Executive

    CounterPoint
    1,210 posts
    Since Sep 28, 2009

    I hope this isn't your actual real views.
  12. barryon Fiddely Dee. Rumpity Doo.

    barryon
    4,051 posts
    Since Dec 9, 2008
    Spot the non-parents in this thread. Of course they shouoldn't be allowed to kill unwanted babies you shower of degenerates. :smashed:
  13. ocelot

    ocelot
    33,900 posts
    Since Dec 27, 2005
    sounds a bit too chinese for me
  14. ChavXL Drinking the banner ads

    ChavXL
    30,586 posts
    Since Feb 6, 2005
    Great idea tbh, though I'm sure you'll get called a facist for infringing people's right to family. IMO the right to family = access to family that already exists, not procreate infinitely.

    Too many people who have kids cant afford them, too many people are willing to let an accidental pregnancy become a birth because of the financial benefits. Reversing it so there are incentives for not breeding would be brilliant :tea:
  15. Contayjen

    Contayjen
    5,814 posts
    Since Sep 21, 2006
    In The Netherlands they already put down terminally ill or severaly retarded newborns, which I think its fine in those cases.

    However, killing unwanted babies in the same way we do with dogs and cats would decrease crime and therefore the number of police we need, increase employment and boost the economy. I'm not endorsing that idea because its horrible, but its pretty obvious that a society which does this will have a big edge over others. Its not really that much of a further ethical leap beyond eating meat really.

    We might not have a choice about this in the future though, so while it seems horrible now it might be the lesser of two evils, the other being all-out genocide/WW III.
  16. Isidoor

    Isidoor
    817 posts
    Since Nov 17, 2008
    I think legalized infanticide of severely disabled newborns is obviously a good idea. Tbh I don't really understand why they would encourage killing healthy babies because those can be adopted by other people who do want kids, and it's weird that you would have to wait until giving birth to realise that you can't afford or don't want kids. But I haven't read their article and tbh I tend to distrust a second hand source with "KILL" in all caps in it's title.

    So, the people who are against this, are you also against abortion? and what about later term abortion after a prenatal diagnosis of a severe handicap? You do realise that sometimes fetuses who could already survive outside the womb are aborted when a severe handicap is found? (at least here in Belgium, but I suspect it's relatively universal).

    edit: here is the full article http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/02/22/medethics-2011-100411.full
  17. Contayjen

    Contayjen
    5,814 posts
    Since Sep 21, 2006
    I'm glad we agree. To use an example, my friends 9yo niece said she wanted to get pregnant as soon as possible so she could get her own place. Being that where she comes from this is a common course of action, she can't really be blamed for thinking this is what 'success' is, but it something that needs to be addressed.
  18. luthatron \o/ Lord Wavey \o/

    luthatron
    42,245 posts
    Since Feb 3, 2004
    lol talking about sterilising your nine year old niece as she wants kids (like most little girls do)

    would you sterilise your mates that are off work on the sick too?

    top trolling.
  19. ChavXL Drinking the banner ads

    ChavXL
    30,586 posts
    Since Feb 6, 2005
    my godparent's niece's kids are the same. She has always been on benefits, never worked, nice sky TV and plasma and all gadgets of course.

    The oldest kid wants to be a mummy like mummy - ASAP by all accounts; but hopefully the younger one doesnt go the same way.

    I think if we offered it to 14 year old girls - and it's reverseable, it would be a brilliant idea, what kid wouldnt turn down a grand to NOT ruin your own life
  20. Contayjen

    Contayjen
    5,814 posts
    Since Sep 21, 2006
    No troll mate, sorry to disappoint.

    Its sad, but its what we've been incentivising.

    Well, there is always the contraceptive implant. They should put those in when they do the BCGs and other shots. It'd last for 5-10 years and after that they'd need to get a replacement.

    If we offered it at school, combined with yearly rewards for not having kids then it could be a winner. Start them at £250 for 15yos for instance, going up every year and peaking at 30yo.
  21. CounterPoint Nitrite Records Executive

    CounterPoint
    1,210 posts
    Since Sep 28, 2009
    It's just immoral
  22. luthatron \o/ Lord Wavey \o/

    luthatron
    42,245 posts
    Since Feb 3, 2004
    you'd be sterilised yourself i assume?
  23. ocelot

    ocelot
    33,900 posts
    Since Dec 27, 2005
    cash 4 unborns
  24. ChavXL Drinking the banner ads

    ChavXL
    30,586 posts
    Since Feb 6, 2005
    i'd support that :tea:

    hard to see any downside tbh
  25. Contayjen

    Contayjen
    5,814 posts
    Since Sep 21, 2006
    Killing some living beings so the rest get an easy ride? Morals are derived from what makes a pleasant world, they aren't absolute. How do you feel about crime/abortion. If you had to choose one, which is the lesser evil?

    No need mate. I've got a job so I don't need money that badly. And when I do have kids, they'll be looked after. I'd rather take the annual bonus that I'm suggesting anyway.
  26. luthatron \o/ Lord Wavey \o/

    luthatron
    42,245 posts
    Since Feb 3, 2004
    you sound like attreyu when he wanted to kill all the people with IQs below 140.

    that's cool though!
  27. Concept

    Concept
    78 posts
    Since Mar 10, 2001
    I'm not comment on the baby thing but

    I work in a hospital and what I see the children of a lot of elderly patients due is disgusting. Denying palliative care to their elderly relative who can no longer do anything except wallow in there on excrement, and making them go through countless procedures so they can live another year in agony. Really makes me mad, right now one of my patient's is so sick that he can no longer take his psych meds due to liver damage so in addition to having less then a year to live, he is a constant manic cycle. Now the family wants him to get a feeding tube (peg) and want to place him in a psych facility. When he really should go to hospice as an inpatient, or home with his family and have hospice stay at his house.
  28. ChavXL Drinking the banner ads

    ChavXL
    30,586 posts
    Since Feb 6, 2005
    just ignore him Contayjen
  29. luthatron \o/ Lord Wavey \o/

    luthatron
    42,245 posts
    Since Feb 3, 2004
  30. Contayjen

    Contayjen
    5,814 posts
    Since Sep 21, 2006
    I was hoping he'd step up to the plate tbh, but his trolls are just :zzz: right now. He's more transparent than a ghost, which coiincidentally what he looks like in real life too, apparently. :laughing:

    I've worked at a mental health facility as well and it is disturbing how cruel we are prepared to be in the name of kindness.