The (possible) Future of Dj'ing

May 8, 2005

  1. Flipvert

    Flipvert
    3,536 posts
    Since Aug 23, 2003
    Okay here's my thoughts on how to move things forward:

    Making use of the new controllers coming out for ableton / traktor / Fscratch etc.

    Sell CD's / DVD's of an E.P or Single in the following format:

    example:

    Sub Focus - X-ray

    1. Kik Drum Channel
    2. Snare Drum Channel
    3. Bassline Channel (1)
    4. Bassline Channel (2)
    5. Synth Line Channel
    6. Fx Channel

    and so on...

    so in essence the complete tune is stripped down to it's single tracks.

    on later tracks have the individual hits... kik, snare, crash etc.

    also have wet and dry versions.

    The point being that you could then excentuate the mix, lengthen it. edit it, remix it, etc

    and use the parts in ableton / traktor / final scratch

    This could be made viable in a "selling records" way, by selling the cd / dvd at say 10 to 20 times the price.

    Serious developers of "Live" mixing / editing would I'm sure pay the money, considering most people Dj and Produce.

    Also the piracy would be somewhat less, like the dub culture because the people that bought the cd / dvd would be less inclined to share it... I mean you get what u pay for and it would lead to far more inspiring, far more un cluttered and tuneful sets...


    Before you flame... just pause and think about the extent of the possibilities with ableton and VST's... using meloydyne / anaters autotune to switch tune / key of basslines... and on and on... true DJ creativity...

    then think back to Grandmaster flash and what he did with 2 record players instead of one which led to the last 20 years of Dj'ing...

    let's move things forward...
  2. ihurtchildren

    ihurtchildren
    3,603 posts
    Since Aug 12, 2002
    I reckon it'll go like that.

    It should finally pay off having most D&B djs really just being producers too.
  3. Flipvert

    Flipvert
    3,536 posts
    Since Aug 23, 2003
  4. dj_lino Rinsin bass, rinsin drum!

    dj_lino
    3,028 posts
    Since Oct 6, 2003
    yeah man that'd be wicked. I guess the hardest thing about it would be finding some way of standardising the way things are realeased.
  5. :psyborg darque science:

    :psyborg
    747 posts
    Since Oct 11, 2002
    yes, thats basically what im doing but with only original loops. i think it would be really cool to also have separated tracks of professional tunes to play with during a live pa.
  6. Coleco

    Coleco
    2,807 posts
    Since Aug 14, 2003
    Soon we'll all have to buy our tunes in (ALF) Andy C Looping Format
  7. Andy H

    Andy H
    13,961 posts
    Since Aug 11, 2001
    Yeah right.... Like producers are gonna want this!!!

    If that happened with X ray youd have about 50 sound a likes withing a month made by 16 year old kids whove just downloaded ejay!
  8. frontloader The Return of Chandu

    frontloader
    9,190 posts
    Since Jan 5, 2002
    i dont think people would be willing to pay that much for a cd/dvd, i for one can hardly afford to buy records.
  9. Flipvert

    Flipvert
    3,536 posts
    Since Aug 23, 2003


    Doesn't mean we have to listen to them / buy them tho does it...

    the point is about talented people getting the most out of their equipment and perfoming it.

    besides, they aint gonna be able to get signed with it or sell it due to copyright and sounding exactly the same???
  10. Flipvert

    Flipvert
    3,536 posts
    Since Aug 23, 2003
    well you could just buy the original...

    but the option is what is the point... not replacement of the single / ep
  11. re[fl3x] fishfinger

    re[fl3x]
    5,438 posts
    Since Oct 7, 2003
    i don't think musicians want to sell sample cds, what's the point in making a tune if everybody just rips it apart?
  12. dj_lino Rinsin bass, rinsin drum!

    dj_lino
    3,028 posts
    Since Oct 6, 2003
    oh yeah... that's a good point - i doubt this could ever become the major DJing style becuase if it was, then you'd never hear the original arrangement of the tune, and I dont think producers would like that at all.

    I reckon if anything, it could become something where you can buy the tune, and then cut it up yourself, but i don't think producers are going to sell the tune in it's separate bits.
  13. WASCAL TTKK

    WASCAL
    6,759 posts
    Since Jan 23, 2004
    I can't imagine producers selling tunes in this format, but no doubt all the A-list DJs will have the latest tunes from each other on ableton eventually :oldboysnetwork:
  14. Flipvert

    Flipvert
    3,536 posts
    Since Aug 23, 2003
    The artists already using this medium for "live" performance are already making loops and small edits of their tunes for each other to use... it seems a natural marketing manouvre to make some money off the public...

    no one said this was gonna happen overnight... but I do believe in some way it will...

    Bet you didn't think music was gonna be free on some weird device call the interweb when you danced round the house to buggles as a kid... but here we are...

    Tomorrows world didn't see that coming either...
  15. abZ A-Beezie

    abZ
    3,846 posts
    Since Sep 30, 2004
    Vinyl may very well die off for good BUT I am pretty sure that info is completely made up. Records have lasted this long, it wouldn't suprise me if it lasted another 20 years. I am hoping anyway... and when it does die I will probably just quit buying new music and only buy old vinyl.
  16. ponky medium to large sized bag

    ponky
    4,168 posts
    Since Aug 5, 2004
    Whatever is most compelling on the dancefloor...
  17. Byson

    Byson
    4,412 posts
    Since Oct 11, 2003
    All a bit daft really....no offense mate. whats the point in all this when you can just play the recording?

    Also i strongly doubt producers will be willing to sell the indivdual parts of thier tunes, just think of the ripping and sampling!

    Nice idea, but I dont think its something we'll be seeing in the near future....

    :pimp:
  18. Structure

    Structure
    3,380 posts
    Since Feb 6, 2001
    I want to be the first to say that I think this is one of the MOST ORIGINAL IDEAS I've heard in a long time and this is why:

    DJs: imagine mixing your favorite tune and truly, truly making it a "live performance" ala Plastikman with his Decks, effects and 909.

    Producers: you'd also benefit from the additional sales (think of how hip hop bits on vinyl always offer the accapella for additional edits, etc.)

    Labels: Think of the added benefit in regards to sales (I'm surprised no dnb labels have even considered making sample CD libraries; I *just* got a 20 page booklet from Sony today in regards to their new products, and there's about 7 of em dedicated to their new sample CD lines.)

    You could even do ESD (Electronic Software Distribution) of wavs and aiffs (ala an acidplanet or beatport), maybe even offering like a $49.95/year membership (for example) to access the service online too.

    I remember I bought one 12 inch from a label (forget who it was tho), but they had 99 breaks on one picture disc; and there's been a few dnb releases that I can remember offhand that offered the bits separated on the same 12" as well.

    great idea Flipvert. :twothumbs:

    best,
    mike
  19. Consumption

    Consumption
    9,903 posts
    Since Feb 13, 2003
    And what about the non producers who just want to listen to the tracks themselves?
  20. cygn

    cygn
    1,490 posts
    Since Aug 4, 2003
    :script: :script: :script:
    great idea!!!
    Actually it's not so new. I recently saw an old tv documentation on the German Techno scene from 1992 and Kid Paul or Cosmic Baby already had the same vision. Unfortunately it's still not reality.
    I'am already mixing with ableton and I like it very much, but using equalisers and filters to cut out channels is just not as efficient as having the separate channels as wave files.
    I'd like to hear opinions from producers on this.
    What I don't agree with is the price you are suggesting. I'am not paying like 50 euros for two tracks...
  21. Structure

    Structure
    3,380 posts
    Since Feb 6, 2001
    CDs / MP3s.

    it wouldn't replace the other formats, rather offering more options is all; just think, 3 years ago DVD releases were really only limited to movies and now everyone and their mother is looking into/releasing Dual Disc/DVD format stuff now (seeing it a lot in the pop/rock genres); I think the more original ideas you come up with in regards to (getting the dnb sound out to the masses) the better.

    Also, it'd be great if there were more CD releases/singles too; DNB could learn a great deal from hip hop, pop and rock in this regard-- I learned a lot about producers and labels starting out by buying those CD compilations with "remixes by so and so" on em.

    Flipvert, you'll get a big kick out of this: in 1997/98 Future Music released a sample CD of bits from all the big name producers from every genre (house, dnb, techno and i think breaks too), and with that, they also got the permission to allow people to use those bits in their own productions- bukem, intense, kevin sanderson, even the human league offered samples for it too.

    Imagine if a DNB label did that; probably would be the best thing since sliced bread.
  22. RocDollar :S

    RocDollar
    5,307 posts
    Since Mar 15, 2004
    I think one of the arts of digital mixing is extracting neat loops from a composite, finished and recognisable track.

    Having it all separated out like this means it isnt a finished product its a set of production tools or instruments - the track would loose its 'signature' - the unique human element the producer adds that makes it composite and recognisable.

    I think it would make the producers that released like this compromise their sound but I still think some will exploit the undenyable market opportunity and perhaps release their own mixdown alongside the component parts (normally these parts would only be accesible by offical remixers, not kevin in his bedroom with a hacked mp3 mixing program - but Kevin doesnt really care because he just loads Reason up and makes a few bars to export as mp3 himself anyway). My point being the barriers to production and mixing are way down now... This means there will be more competition which is good for the listener.

    Damn, I need to do some work. Fascinating topic and very exciting for the future.
  23. thefanboy Feedback (Backspacer)

    thefanboy
    4,320 posts
    Since Dec 2, 2003
    I'd be up for this...works well with some ideas I had regarding live performance (but done differently, not using ableton etc...) that I talked with my mate today...

    I'd buy it for sure :twothumbs:
  24. Byson

    Byson
    4,412 posts
    Since Oct 11, 2003
    I dunno, I think this would be the road tro madnes. people wpuild be sampling bits and releasing them, and in the end itd be one big mess.

    :pimp:
  25. process

    process
    11,255 posts
    Since Apr 29, 2001
    its for arts sake. theres not really any money to be lost anyway, so all you have to do is be confident yet swallow your pride.
  26. thefanboy Feedback (Backspacer)

    thefanboy
    4,320 posts
    Since Dec 2, 2003
    Thats what our genre is based on....people nick other bits and mess with them...
  27. process

    process
    11,255 posts
    Since Apr 29, 2001
    yea like i said , its a matter of swallowing your pride and being confident that you are an talented artist. theres really nothing to lose. its easier said then done, but its still possible. i wouldnt do it for my non dnb music, but for dnb and other dance music which like you said is a sampling culture by nature and theres a ton of communication within the scene as it is, why not push it further. push the music further. if you cant deal with that then you must just want fame and a small bit of fortune which you subconsciously admit you dont deserve.
  28. guerrillatactics

    guerrillatactics
    1,450 posts
    Since Nov 2, 2004
    Buy the regular track, not the bit's & pieces version.

    I wish dnb labels would just release their tracks on cd rather than just vinyl, just because that would be more economical. Picture getting a years worth of Renegade Hardware on 1 cd versus 10 or 12 pieces of wax. The only problem I can see with that, though, is that dnb labels would have to really tighten up thier production/release schedule to allow both vinyl and cd to be released at the same time. Maybe doubling up releases on the schedule, i.e. 4 tracks at once rather than tow, and sold as a "Sampler CD" for that label. After paying about $10 for a single record with 2 tunes, I would gladly pay $10-$15 for four or five tracks...

    As far as the tracks being available broken down into channels/sounds, the drawback is that instead of a DJ performance, you get a live pseudo-production session, and you also cut out some of the DJ tricks that make some DJ's so fun to watch, such as scratching and beat juggling (although these two skills are NOT vinyl exclusive, as we've all seen CutChemist rip it up on a cdj, although juggling is still a tough act on a cd player...).

    Whatever the direction, it will be fun and interesting to see how future DJing takes place.
  29. mackie

    mackie
    17,638 posts
    Since Jul 8, 2001
    i like the idea... like selling lego bricks
  30. guerrillatactics

    guerrillatactics
    1,450 posts
    Since Nov 2, 2004
    It does seem to offer a world of possibilities.