hardtek bass help?

Production | Jul 12, 2014

  1. elk

    elk

    elk

    75 posts
    Since Jul 12, 2014
    hi their im pretty new to the production side of thing so still learning. the problem ive got this now is getting that rolling/pumping kick bass you get in most tekno tunes. ive tried searching online but most the stuff ive found is in french or a bit vauge. was hoping someone here could help me out. i am using ableton 8.

    cheers
    elk
  2. luthatron \o/

    luthatron

    luthatron \o/

    52,990 posts
    Since Feb 3, 2004
    maybe a sine wave with an envelope to pitch? or you could use a 808 or 909 tom sample.

    You may want to sidechain it to the kick too, to get it pumping.

    It's the sort of sound where you need to programme a pattern (probably just offbeat) and then adjust the synth as it plays.
  3. Full Monty

    Full Monty

    Full Monty

    613 posts
    Since Mar 31, 2014
    Did you really search online? Because there are lots of tutorials on how to do this. The rolling effect is just kickdrums with different velocities. Search for some good 909 kickdrums. Search for "schranz" tutorials as well.

    Good luck.

    [Tutorial HD] How to make a simple...
  4. Meckler

    Meckler

    Meckler

    417 posts
    Since Oct 12, 2008
    Erm that's one way to do it but there are others... Depends on what you're tying to make. I usually use a kick and completely separate sub and bass layers. I shape these with envelopes and move with ableton's delay function until I get a groove going. If you posted examples of the type of thing you're trying to make that'd be helpful :smile: Safe
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
  5. ChewyJetpack and Wraith like this.

    elk

    elk

    elk

    75 posts
    Since Jul 12, 2014
    ChewyJetpack and Wraith like this.
  6. Full Monty

    Full Monty

    Full Monty

    613 posts
    Since Mar 31, 2014
    Thats a simple sawtooth bass sidechained to the kickdrum with a sinus sub underneath. Check out the Ueberschall drum samples for kicks like this. Good luck.
  7. ChewyJetpack Dancefloor geometry innovator

    ChewyJetpack

    ChewyJetpack Dancefloor geometry innovator

    2,383 posts
    Since Feb 18, 2014
    tune! <3 vandal. it's about time some more people started making decent raggatek.
  8. elk

    elk

    elk

    75 posts
    Since Jul 12, 2014
    cheers guys! cant beat a bit of raggatek
  9. Jimmy Crack and ChewyJetpack like this.

    Meckler

    Meckler

    Meckler

    417 posts
    Since Oct 12, 2008
    Big tune!

    Though I'm sure it's a decent method, I've personally never had a lot of success with sidechained basses. Really easy to get muddy results that way.

    Usually I'll sketch out a basic offbeat pattern (Kick, Bass, Kick, Bass) then tweak the synth's (I find massive is good for buzzy saw basses) envelope until I get the desired groove going. Also pulling around & shortening the bass notes in midi.

    One thing I've found extremely important is to minimise or, if possible, eliminate any overlap between the kick and bass. At 190+ bpm it's sooo easy to get mud/boominess due to this + it'll make your tune sound like arse through a rig. But it is a fine line. Really short bass notes and you get a pumpcore-esque, Alryk style effect (that you might want... but not for Vandal style tunes). Really shorten a kick sample and you lose the punch. Multi-band sidechain compression is actually useful once you've got the relationship mostly right but short, punchy kick drums are the key. I use a kick drum synthesiser to attain this (this one's good http://www.sonicacademy.com/kick) then layer samples for the top end.

    As mentioned above Vandal (and a lot of tribe/tekno) bass is really simple - it's the relationship between the kick and the bass that is the key.

    Good luck! & post up what you make, interested to hear :smile:

    Safe
    Jimmy Crack and ChewyJetpack like this.
  10. sicduk likes this.

    ChewyJetpack Dancefloor geometry innovator

    ChewyJetpack

    ChewyJetpack Dancefloor geometry innovator

    2,383 posts
    Since Feb 18, 2014
    nice post! I've never tried to make raggatek, although i did dabble in hardtek back in like '07 or something. tempting to give it a go, as i love all the new raggatek shit!
    sicduk likes this.
  11. elk

    elk

    elk

    75 posts
    Since Jul 12, 2014
    cheer meckler thats a great help! much appreciated. il ive it a go see how i get on.
  12. AudioMonk

    AudioMonk

    AudioMonk

    21 posts
    Since May 24, 2014
    Thread! Nice to see some different styles being discussed and analysed on the grid
  13. elk

    elk

    elk

    75 posts
    Since Jul 12, 2014
    Anyone else got any advice on this? Cheers
  14. sicduk likes this.

    st0 Mental Insane Patient

    st0

    st0 Mental Insane Patient

    257 posts
    Since Nov 7, 2011
    sicduk likes this.
  15. barrybadman sissies

    barrybadman

    barrybadman sissies

    4,231 posts
    Since Feb 7, 2013
    hardtek and tribaltek are british inventions
    frenchcore and terror kicks are as basic and soft as they get alongside uk hardcore heavy
  16. Meckler

    Meckler

    Meckler

    417 posts
    Since Oct 12, 2008
    Something to try besides side chaining...

    1. Line up a simple 4x4 kick pattern. Short 'n punchy. Bounce to audio.

    2. Dial in basic offbeat bass pattern. Full range bass. Bounce to audio.

    3. Shorten kicks & apply fades so they never spill into bass hits.

    4. Shorten bass & apply fades so they never overlap with kicks.

    5. Tweak bass attack fades to get desired push/pull/sucking effect.

    6. Fatten with saturation/distortion/compression/etc/etc

    7. Repeat steps 1 - 4 (bounce to audio and chop).

    8. Copy & paste until 5 min long. Limit. Render.

    9. Press to vinyl.

    In all seriousness though, it's a solid method (steps 1 - 7 at least). I usually use two layers for bass - one for 0 - 300hz and one for the top stuff. Just a control thing, not necessary. It's quite rough and ready rave music, just have fun ;)

    Also... hats are crazy important for the feeling of speed / tempo. 190 can sound slow without good hats.

    What are you having trouble with elk? Happy to help if I can - I mainly make this sort of stuff.

    Safe
  17. barrybadman sissies

    barrybadman

    barrybadman sissies

    4,231 posts
    Since Feb 7, 2013
    boris boris boom vid is the only hardtek/tribaltek in this thread, everything else is wank, just get a uk hardcore sample cd or hit ultimatebuzz forum
  18. grammer

    grammer

    grammer

    598 posts
    Since Mar 22, 2014
    vandal is a lovely chap
  19. CokaBizarro likes this.

    elk

    elk

    elk

    75 posts
    Since Jul 12, 2014


    this is what ive got so far,still need a bit of work. any advice would be much appreciated! probably the closest ive ever come to completing a track aswell
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
    CokaBizarro likes this.
  20. elk likes this.

    CokaBizarro

    CokaBizarro

    CokaBizarro

    71 posts
    Since Jul 26, 2015
    Sounds like the (Sub-)Bass is out of tune at some points. But beside that, this sounds pretty neat, the midrange-bass is really nice.
    elk likes this.
  21. elk likes this.

    Meckler

    Meckler

    Meckler

    417 posts
    Since Oct 12, 2008
    Nice track man.

    Got a tight little groove! The kickbass could be fatter though (it can always be fatter FWIW).

    That Bam Bam track on your SC is decent too! Keep up :)

    If you're interested I could post up some samples of separate kick and bass layers that work together. This way people can drop them in a DAW and see and hear how they work together?

    I googled hardtek bass and this is the first page that comes up! So good place to share info on this kind of elusive subject.
    elk likes this.
  22. elk likes this.

    Meckler

    Meckler

    Meckler

    417 posts
    Since Oct 12, 2008
    My current method is the one I posted above but slightly less anal.

    1. Get Kick

    2. Load up synth, dial in offbeat bass

    3. Move MIDI notes around + hit up Live's track delay function to get groove.

    4. Use compressor to sidechain kick to bass to let kick breath (I have a good method for this in Live, to get it really accurate when using delay function, if anyone's interested).

    5. Profit!
    elk likes this.
  23. elk

    elk

    elk

    75 posts
    Since Jul 12, 2014
    Nice one cheers man! That would be great if you could post up examples of the kick bass. Will need to try messing about with the track delay that's something I haven't tried yet
  24. elk likes this.

    Meckler

    Meckler

    Meckler

    417 posts
    Since Oct 12, 2008
    Got round to this eventually!

    https://mega.nz/#!CAEShY7b!WG65wkAJ4TlHTk15uynE4kjwQSZ81ufjEO630XsQjMA

    Two examples in there @ 205 bpm. Both using the same kick (not the best, just grabbed it from a project).

    Example 1 is the totally chopped, brick of sound bass which doesn't touch the kick but still grooves.

    Example 2 is a more traditional sucking, push-pull bass that overlaps with the tail of the kick.

    Both basses were made in Serum.

    Bass 1 has a quick envelope on the wavetables to give it movement. MIDI dialed in on the offbeat.

    Bass 2 has an LFO, set to 1/4 notes, on the level of the oscillators. MIDI dialed in as one long note. I then sidechain compressed it hard to the kick with Fabfilter Pro-C on the 'Opto' setting. Then bounced to audio and cleaned up with clip fades.

    Hope this helps a bit - it's a really simple sound but takes ages to get right! There's no right way to do it, just methods.

    If you want the patches for Serum just let me know :)
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2016
    elk likes this.
  25. Rogue Trooper Giant Smurf

    Rogue Trooper

    Rogue Trooper Giant Smurf

    4,995 posts
    Since Jan 22, 2004
    Waves Pumper is a good alternative to side-chaining without fucking about too much. There are a few other free plugs that do the same thing, but they don't sound as good IMO.
  26. elk

    elk

    elk

    75 posts
    Since Jul 12, 2014
    Cheers man that's a been allot of help!much appreciated. If you get a chance you think you could upload the patches would quite like to see how you've enveloped them etc
  27. ProgressiveNeuroCunt likes this.

    elk

    elk

    elk

    75 posts
    Since Jul 12, 2014

    heres where im at so far, wouldnt mind another set of ears to have a listen and suggest any advice, still not totally happy with the bass. any advice would be much appreciated, cheers
    ProgressiveNeuroCunt likes this.
  28. elk

    elk

    elk

    75 posts
    Since Jul 12, 2014
    heres a new track ive been trying to finish, still not happy with the bass
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  29. Ag_U

    Ag_U

    Ag_U

    131 posts
    Since Sep 6, 2016
    Umm, where's the track?
  30. Meckler

    Meckler

    Meckler

    417 posts
    Since Oct 12, 2008
    SC embeds still broken? Post a link man
Production