New Here, New To DnB Production.

Production | Jan 2, 2017

  1. phreeky likes this.

    MVibe

    MVibe

    MVibe

    44 posts
    Since Jan 2, 2017
    Hi all.

    I've just registered here as I have an interest in making some DnB/Jungle based tunes and have been reading various threads hoping to pick up a few tips etc.

    I'm not new to music in general but I have never strayed far from Deep House territory ( not the new type, the older sort of stuff ) but I have never tried to make any Drum n Bass or Jungle even though I have a fondness for a lot of it.

    I kinda know the sort of stuff I want to get into making but I'm unsure as to which route to take for the breaks/drums apect of it. Chopping up & re-sequencing breaks for example, isn't something I have much experience with and I'm unsure as to the most creative and productive route to take here.

    I'm mainly using Reason & Ableton, sometimes rewired, sometimes I just create rhythms/loops etc in Reason and record these into Ableton and that has suited me fine for House stuff but I want to get a bit more 'techy' 'edit-crazy' and creative in regard to rhythms and breaks and have been looking at various plugins/apps to use to get the results I'd like.

    Up until now, apart from writing/programming my own beats, I have just been slicing stuff within Ableton and sequencing audio & midi directly on the arrange page. I find this a little uninspiring and predictable though and a bit messy and fiddly when I want to effect a certain hit here and there and apply very subtle changes over time so I've been looking at other stuff I could use to create my breaks and either use straight out of those tools or to create various grooves to bounce to audio and so far, I have downloaded demos for Renoise Redux and SliceX.

    Redux seems quite deep as far as I can tell and the phrase editor thing would be great but I'm miles away from getting my head around the tracker way of sequencing but listening to some of the included phrases that come with the demo are quite typical of some of the things I want to do with sounds. Not tried Slicex yet but installed the demo. Other than that, I don't know of anything else. There's obviously Rex stuff in Reason but I'm kinda trying to avoid rewire lately and would prefer to be doing everything in Ableton.

    So to sum up, I'm looking for something where I can sequence/slice/re-sequence beats & breaks, apply efx on certain hits, possibly replace certain hits, apply envelopes, modulate sample start time etc & maybe stumble on happy accidents along the way. I have no idea whether such things exist or whether I will just have to use a number of ways combined to get what I want, either way, I have a bit of option paralysis right now and would prefer learning the right tools for the job than spend too long learning things that turn out to be unnecessary.

    Any suggestions would be great & happy new year....:)
    phreeky likes this.
  2. R0llin likes this.

    DustBrigade

    DustBrigade

    DustBrigade

    516 posts
    Since Oct 21, 2014
    Welcome to the forum!

    Abletons native stuff will work just great. The slice to midi works good and then you might need to adjust the slice points to avoid clicks sometimes. You can customize the slice to midi function that gives you whatever macros you set up for the drumrack, quite handy to quickly set up for performance instead of the standard adsr. Another thing you can do there is to send individual hits of the drumrack to a send. In order to do that you need to click the IO and create a returnchain in the drumrack. Don't forget about chokegroups and looping ends of samples when you want that smooth sound that sustain hits until being canceled out by the next sound.

    I use Slicex and I like it, but I also use FL as my main DAW - really like how quickly I manage slicepoints there with shortcuts. But actually prefer abletons sampler - so intuitive and yet powerful. So when working in ableton I don't see why I would go for slicex. Ableton really shines when working with breaks imo.

    I would also encourage to explore the different swings or extract grooves and apply to other midiclips.

    Hope any of this gibberish helps!
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
    R0llin likes this.
  3. Rogue Trooper likes this.

    seriouslydude

    seriouslydude

    seriouslydude

    217 posts
    Since Jul 4, 2016
    the best vst replacement for Dr Rex (other than Stylus RMX which is much older and can't be downloaded) is Transfuser 2 by AIR. it's on plugin boutique. trust me, just get it, the Slice Sequencer in there is very good. if you want to split your breaks, it finds your kicks, snares and hats for you and groups them, it's fucking ace.
    Rogue Trooper likes this.
  4. alien_brain ┴IOɹ┴Ǝp

    alien_brain

    alien_brain ┴IOɹ┴Ǝp

    1,983 posts
    Since Aug 29, 2005
    ever checked out fxpansion geist?
  5. HouseAddict

    HouseAddict

    HouseAddict

    3,683 posts
    Since May 26, 2004
    I think literally everything you listed there can be done in Ableton. You know that in drum racks cells you can drag a simpler/sampler (or lots of other stuff, external vsts) in right?

    Create a blank drum rack . Drag a simpler to empty channel in Live, and set some preset you want to use i.e. a generic release time that most the samples will last for which you can adjust anyway. copy the simpler and paste in to all the cells. You'll now have 16 hits to work with. Because you are using simpler to trigger it, you can change sample start times and whatnot, plus all the stuff that simpler/sampler etc offers for playback

    Then simply cut your break, throw each slice to the next simpler in the rack (tidy up start times, release, pitch etc etc) and you'll have your break ready to go. Midi clips then become the way to rearrange or edit. I often cut up a midi clip playing the og break in sequence and and rearrange then reconsolidate that once it sounds good.

    All good if you want to try newer methods though
  6. speak likes this.

    Lucif3rX166

    Lucif3rX166

    Lucif3rX166

    111 posts
    Since Oct 27, 2016
    I prefer to use FL Studio and just do a search for the Amen break and find a good long sample of it so you can cut out the length of break from the sample you'd like. Then you have the basic drums/break part done. Modify it to your liking with FX and figure out some bass. Then keying your tunes is the hard part 4 me. Gotta figure a score for bass
    speak likes this.
  7. 00Monarc I make neurofunk Garbage.

    00Monarc

    00Monarc I make neurofunk Garbage.

    463 posts
    Since Jun 30, 2015
    The best method I've found is to grind it out, manually process every hit individually with FX related plugins to your desired sounds, and just sit there for hours finding the best arrangement.

    It's what most producers do. The meticulous crafting is the soul of dnb. It's just what it's about.

    Cheers for making the leap towards the genre! Whatever you do, if you've got a unique means of production, bring it to your dnb production. Inspiration from all kinds of music seems to work well in dnb.
  8. MVibe

    MVibe

    MVibe

    44 posts
    Since Jan 2, 2017
    Thanks, no it's not gibberish, I understand it completely, I've been doing music for some time but I just have no experience with sampled breaks and the best ways to go about getting the results I am imagining. :) One of the things promting this question is that I usually end up finding my own ways of doing things but then when I get chatting to others about certain techniques, they go, 'man, you are doing it the hard way, try this' etc etc. I just didn't want to be chasing some technique that may seem prehistoric potentially wasting loads of production time :)

    That said though, the only thing I don't understand there is the looping of the ends of samples. I've not tried this as yet but can see how this could be useful, is it difficult to loop a decaying sound?


    Thanks, sounds Interesting, I'll look it up for sure :)

    @ alien-brain: Yeah, I know of geist, looked into that sometime ago for something else but ended up being put off by the users forum and I also though it was expensive when I wasn't even sure if I needed the features. I liked the concept though, things like this that can work to create you interesting patterns and phrases, I'm all for as I can bounce em out and use them in other stuff..

    I was doing something similar from the arrange page, I'd put a break on there, use the slice ( Ctrl/E ) I think and with a drum rack set up on a midi track and in focus, dragging the slices I made down onto the pads of the drum rack, for some reason though, even though I'd sliced the break, when I actually dropped the slices down to a drum rack, the slice became the whole loop again. I don't know why but I moved on to chopping out the slices in Recycle & Wavelab and saved them and dragged them in to a drum rack from Lives browser which quickly became a little time consuming. Is there a slice function I'm missing in Live? Thanks.

    This could sum me up to be honest and it's what I have usually always done. I have a fair amount of patience and prefer to tailor sounds until I like them before getting bogged down with arrangements and stuff and then once I have an idea I get going on it but I hate working on ideas if I've been lazy in the sound design dept as it does my head in and I can't get inspired if it sounds a bit naff but sometimes it can be a distraction for me, I lose sight of the core idea and wander off in tangents trying to create all sorts of resamples and stuff for no reason so I guess I'm looking to try the tried & tested ways and get to grips with that so I can try to put my own spin on them and see where I go from there. In the past, I've been guilty pf spending way too long developing the 'wrong' way around things and wasted too much time and not getting enough actual music done. :)

    Thanks for the tips guys, appreciate it. I'll get some production time over the next few days so I'm itching to crack on with some ideas. About the looping of the ends of samples, I'd like to know more about this if anyone could shed some light. Nice one :)
  9. DustBrigade

    DustBrigade

    DustBrigade

    516 posts
    Since Oct 21, 2014
    Doing drums: reverse/alternating loop


    For the looping part.

    Have you tried to right click an audio clip in the arrangement page and selected slice to midi?
  10. DustBrigade likes this.

    MVibe

    MVibe

    MVibe

    44 posts
    Since Jan 2, 2017
    Thanks for the vid link. Yeah, I know about slicing to midi, in that I know what it is but it's not a function I have needed before with House stuff. Will be able to try stuff out tonight so thanks again.
    DustBrigade likes this.
  11. DustBrigade likes this.

    MVibe

    MVibe

    MVibe

    44 posts
    Since Jan 2, 2017
    Just had a quick sneaky watch of that, yeah that looks cool, I can see where I will find that useful. Will try that out later
    DustBrigade likes this.
  12. HouseAddict

    HouseAddict

    HouseAddict

    3,683 posts
    Since May 26, 2004
    Well the way it works as i understand it is when you get your break and cut it to hits, if you look at each segment you cut, it's basically just the whole loop but a slice between those two points. So it make sense to me when you drag each slice down that it's showing the whole wave

    If you select a slice before dragging and use ctrl-j to consolidate it, that hit becomes only that slice and you remove all the surrounding audio - just remember to turn off warp if it's on before dragging it to the drum pad. I'd also check your hits before you drag them down and ensure they aren't warped too as you could have some funny warping going on causing the slice becomes whole again issue - which could be fixed easily by turning warp off
  13. Logical impulse likes this.

    00Monarc I make neurofunk Garbage.

    00Monarc

    00Monarc I make neurofunk Garbage.

    463 posts
    Since Jun 30, 2015

    The trick to this is to work in sessions.

    Make your drums sound great with processing while arranging them. When it comes to arranging everything else, hold off on processing until you have finished arranging. This is just what I do with drums. Make them sound as good as you can on their own, but realize that they will need more tweaking once the full arrangement is done.

    Don't listen to what you hear, focus on what the sound could become. That's where you find the inspiration.
    Logical impulse likes this.
  14. MVibe

    MVibe

    MVibe

    44 posts
    Since Jan 2, 2017
    Thanks, I will be giving that a try. Incidently, when chopping and re-using an existing break ( by existing break, I mean a break that has already been produced to a DnB tempo or one of your own etc etc as oppose to some original old vinyl break or something ) do you approach it differently? At the moment, if I'm just looking and lifting a few kicks and snares off of say a loop on a sample cd, I'm literally just cutting them out in Recycle and putting those hits in a drum rack, layering them up if need be and re-pitching/re-sequencing etc, but original breaks off of records or whatever, I'm getting quite meticlulous about the chopping so I get the cuts down to sample accuracy and if in Recycle, keeping the midi file/timing to experiment with groove templates on my programmed hits.

    I have absolutely no idea if this is a typical way to go about things but what I'm trying to do, is lay out where I want my kick and snares as a basic 'backbeat' so I'm using one shots either sourced from my sample library or, usually chopped out of loops I like where there is a sense of sonic coherence as though they belong together. Then if I'm only stuck with 1 snare and 1 kick lifted from a loop, I copy the samples a few times to other pads in the drum rack and make slight adjustments to the copies to simulate velocity variations. Like, move in just past the attack transient for a lower velocity hit so it's softer, activate a LP filter so a low velocity sound isn't as bright and then with a basic pattern running, I have been auditioning 'real' breaks, looking for anything within the break that lends itself well to the programmed kicks/snares and once I have found a few elements, just going in and start building up a cohesive drum set by chopping/slicing/re-pitching/re-sequencing etc, removing what I don't need, keeping what I like and then looking at processing the kit as a whole to glue it all together.

    I don't really want to use a loop 'as is', I'd really like to get in there down to the sample and be able to come from the ground up so to speak, so I am unsure at the moment whether I missing any other technique. It would be great to hear how others go about their beats, where they draw the line in regard to pre - made DnB breaks and so on.

    Thanks for the tips guys, glad I registered here :)
  15. seriouslydude

    seriouslydude

    seriouslydude

    217 posts
    Since Jul 4, 2016
    ableton live does NOT have a slice sequencer. it has a piano roll, you can chop up a loop then re-arrange the order of silces with notes, that's it. you can't manipulate the loop itself, there's an important distinction to be made.
  16. 00Monarc likes this.

    MVibe

    MVibe

    MVibe

    44 posts
    Since Jan 2, 2017
    I know where you're coming from. I'm not new to music and production, I've been at it for some time on and off, I'm totally new to the techniques used for DnB though, there's a lot that's gonna cross over but also a lot that I'm gonna need to develop as breaks/beats is a whole new ball game for me right now :) Anyway, at the core of it, this is why I wanted to make something a little more energetic than Deep House - which is, by its nature, pretty lazy and melancholic ( at least the stuff I am into ) There's a lot of 'set & forget' going on and arrangements can be made live from an 8 bar loop and then you're almost 'DJ'ing' your arrangement by mutes and pre-made patterns, there's nothing 'fancy' going on it terms of fancy trickery, just chord based stuff which evolves slowly and groove. When you're itching to get a bit more experimental, it can be a difficult genre to do that in whilst still maintaining a root connection to the core idea, it's very easy to end up 'Tech House' ot Techno, so it's a bit of creative freedom for me to try something new and to try stuff out that I probably wouldn't otheriwse do. But yeah, what you're saying is logical and follows a productive workflow. Ordinarily, I'd have an idea before thinking about resampling for little 'cool bits' etc :)
    00Monarc likes this.
  17. MVibe

    MVibe

    MVibe

    44 posts
    Since Jan 2, 2017
    Hi mate, what do you mean? Isn't slicing and re-arranging manipulating the loop itself?
  18. RE5ONANCE likes this.

    ChewyJetpack Dancefloor geometry innovator

    ChewyJetpack

    ChewyJetpack Dancefloor geometry innovator

    2,662 posts
    Since Feb 18, 2014
    remix mr happy
    RE5ONANCE likes this.
  19. MVibe

    MVibe

    MVibe

    44 posts
    Since Jan 2, 2017

    What the DJ Hazard track? Why?
  20. HouseAddict

    HouseAddict

    HouseAddict

    3,683 posts
    Since May 26, 2004
    Nah pretty much just use the same method if the aim was the same (to get the hits in to somewhere i can play around with). There's other ways to go about it of course as well, instead of measuring out each slice there's alternative methods that can work to your favour etc depending on what you want to do.

    Eg. This tutorial (written by Hattrixx) is pretty good, and definitely may give you some ideas around what might work for you best. it's not online now
    but there's a copy here.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20120113...o.uk/breakbeat/showpage.asp?name=Introduction

    Tbh with you i aim to try and do the least amount of meticulous things not because im lazy but because you just end up not writing music half the time, i can do that later but with the methods discussed they are very quick for getting ideas down and flowing
  21. Logical impulse likes this.

    DJfreestyle Original forum pleaser geezer

    DJfreestyle

    DJfreestyle Original forum pleaser geezer

    1,471 posts
    Since Jul 27, 2007
    The best advice you will ever have:
    Don't make tracks to please a forum, and use any knowledge to up your production skills, and when someone does offer knowledge demand evidence that they know what they are talking about, if they don't, your doomed.
    Other advice is always play your tracks to compare them with other big dnb tracks ( use drum & bass arenas releases ) as this will give you a full spectrum of production tracks.

    ALWAYS give away tracks for free even if your a super star.
    Last advice:
    Do it for love and the money will follow
    Logical impulse likes this.
  22. HouseAddict likes this.

    MVibe

    MVibe

    MVibe

    44 posts
    Since Jan 2, 2017
    Good stuff and thanks for that link bro. Very slow to load but there's a lot of production aspects I'm not familiar with and it's a glodmine right now :)
    HouseAddict likes this.
  23. MVibe

    MVibe

    MVibe

    44 posts
    Since Jan 2, 2017
    Hi mate, I'm not new to music making, I have been at it for some time on and off, I'm just new to DnB as a genre having previously been involved in House music. For what it's worth, I agree with your sentiments exactly bruv. :)
  24. HouseAddict

    HouseAddict

    HouseAddict

    3,683 posts
    Since May 26, 2004
    No probs mate, you're welcome. Have fun! :)
  25. DJfreestyle Original forum pleaser geezer

    DJfreestyle

    DJfreestyle Original forum pleaser geezer

    1,471 posts
    Since Jul 27, 2007
    Good luck in this overloaded genre some call music, all the best
  26. Rogue Trooper and Salem.77 like this.

    Mania You people make me sick

    Mania

    Mania You people make me sick

    1,468 posts
    Since Feb 3, 2014
    RUN AWAY BEFORE ITS TOO LATE
    Rogue Trooper and Salem.77 like this.
  27. BHK

    BHK

    BHK

    1,078 posts
    Since Apr 10, 2008
    Jungle/drum'n'bass production is not much different to house production. You do actually the same you did with reason and ableton to make your house music. Drum'n'Bass producer just like to make or show more than actually needed.

    You can produce drum'n'bass on a high level just with reasons and ableton stock plug ins too. So all you really need are just the sounds and drums that are used for the jungle and drum'n'bass sound.

    In case you want to have a crash course into drum'n'bass sound design go for our tools pack, but you need the newest ableton version to get these racks working, they are build up simple and easy to understand. Covering a lot way's how to make basically every sound of Drum'n'Bass. And we are going to release soon the same as combinator set up's, which will also work with reason 4 and up.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
Production