Renoise

Production | Dec 29, 2004

  1. B-complex renoise head

    B-complex

    B-complex renoise head

    2,384 posts
    Since Jun 8, 2004
    yeah trackers :) it was nice time of history... but with these newschool trackers [and in my subjective view, renoise is best of them, ] is quite powerfull tools for making music. I am just wandering if there are more people on DOA using it :)
  2. J Swift Guest

    J Swift

    J Swift Guest

    4,760 posts
    Since May 21, 2003
    The new ASC album was done in Renoise..!

    Most breakcore producers, like Venetian Snares and a lot of the other Planet Mu guys, use old-skool trackers - Namely MED Studio - Which is freeware and about as hardcore as you're going to get...

    Paradox still uses the original Amiga version, OctaMED, doesn't he..?

    The learning curve on trackers is very steep, but give someone a tracker and in a week or two they'll be able to program things that would take months to do in Logic/Reason/etc... and would NEVER sound as tight or as slick... Programming beats, start offsets, panning, fx, etc... tracker style, makes the whole sequencer come alive - You can do things I'd not even think about attempting in SX or Pro Tools.
  3. Point of Reference Banned by DOA

    Point of Reference

    Point of Reference Banned by DOA

    21,800 posts
    Since Feb 12, 2001
  4. brendan you what

    brendan

    brendan you what

    7,261 posts
    Since Apr 12, 2001
    where can i learn to use a tracker
  5. MiL0

    MiL0

    MiL0

    15,834 posts
    Since Jan 25, 2002
    check the www.renoise.com website for tutorials - very nice tracker and will be perfect once they implement a proper piano roll :slayer:



    desimal uses it for composition I believe btw :smil:
  6. Point of Reference Banned by DOA

    Point of Reference

    Point of Reference Banned by DOA

    21,800 posts
    Since Feb 12, 2001
    who needs a piano roll when you can use energyXT inside of buzz/renoise ;)
  7. B-complex renoise head

    B-complex

    B-complex renoise head

    2,384 posts
    Since Jun 8, 2004
    With all respect to other software products, I think that trackers are the most creative tools , I still remember when I stopped using madtracker [becouse of sound] and start learning in reason I was very surprised that simple things I knew from trackers was quite hard to make with these sequencers, also later with cubase I found that very simple things from tracker's point of view was too complicated to make. When renoise implement piano roll and some proper mixer, maybe also advanced sampler options it will be best solution for producers at least comparing cost/quality.
  8. rounser

    rounser

    rounser

    499 posts
    Since Dec 3, 2003
    Renoise offers a workflow which I can't really find elsewhere. The envelopes alone make it worth a look, and it seems to incorporate everything that sequencers had and trackers lacked...except for a piano roll, as mentioned.

    Next version will include either that or Rewire, the devs claim. Meantime, it can be MIDI slaved to a sequencer with a piano roll. Particularly good companion for Reason in this way; the two apps seem to cover one another's weak areas very neatly.
  9. Point of Reference Banned by DOA

    Point of Reference

    Point of Reference Banned by DOA

    21,800 posts
    Since Feb 12, 2001
    don't get me wrong, i like renoise very much...I just can't live without my buzz machines :teeth:
  10. ohmegav

    ohmegav

    ohmegav

    621 posts
    Since Nov 24, 2003

    Wasn't there a post on the Renoise forum stating that they got authorization from the buzz dev. to add support to the buzz machines?


    ;)
  11. ohmegav

    ohmegav

    ohmegav

    621 posts
    Since Nov 24, 2003

    How do u do that? Any tutorials out there?
  12. Point of Reference Banned by DOA

    Point of Reference

    Point of Reference Banned by DOA

    21,800 posts
    Since Feb 12, 2001
    yeh, but that was almost a year ago with no updates...so I have my doubts to say the least
  13. B-complex renoise head

    B-complex

    B-complex renoise head

    2,384 posts
    Since Jun 8, 2004
    Here is the link for renoise tutorial, it's quite helpful, If I've had something like this when I started with my ft2 it would help me a lot :) but anyways most important thing is try&see :)
  14. ry-teknology genera

    ry-teknology

    ry-teknology genera

    6,535 posts
    Since Jul 24, 2001
    I need to learn renoise
  15. rounser

    rounser

    rounser

    499 posts
    Since Dec 3, 2003
    Have you also tried Sonicbytes EST? It's a step sequencer/sampler/drum sequencer as opposed to a true piano roll, but another good GUI interface to try inside your main host.
  16. RESET

    RESET

    RESET

    6,239 posts
    Since Apr 4, 2002
    Seriosly tho sequencers like Logic cubase MUST be better, they cost like £1000's

    I am gonna give renoise a go as this is the 20th or so thread i've seen bigging it up but i can't see how a freeware program would be better for making tunes than something like Logic cubase etc etc it just seems ridiculous to even suggest...




    but like i said i've never 'actually used' a tracker...yet
  17. rounser

    rounser

    rounser

    499 posts
    Since Dec 3, 2003
    They're in a different league. There's features on them that I wish I had access to, like the ability to force MIDI events into a smaller area yet retain their relative position and size in relation to one another. Or simply sample audio, for that matter.
    I think I like the integration and lack of abstraction.

    If you think, like me, that 9/10ths of dance music production is editing samples, then layering, enveloping, looping and LFO-ing them, sequencing them and effecting them, and then maybe sampling the result again for another round of manipulation, then you'll probably need:

    1) An audio editor application.
    2) A sampler plugin.
    3) A sequencer (with piano roll and arranger).
    4) Effects plugins.

    Renoise can do all of this, on three tabs, without need for plugins or external apps, and nothing hidden in menus. Live and Reason come close, but not to the same degree of integration at the sample level (you can select an area of sequencing in Renoise's pattern editor and choose "Render selection to sample slot" for instance, and the result ends up in the sampler). Not having to flip between windows or "Save As" samples and then "Open" them elsewhere - that alone is a big plus for me.

    Then it has the usual tracker virtues (and limitations), which you have to try out for yourself to understand. Step input alone is nice sometimes, and trackers make great drum machines (although I'm using tools like Ruction and EST at the moment because I like slider control over velocity).

    And the Fasttracker envelopes/LFOs rock IMO - for me, that's the dealbreaker which it has over other similar apps which are still using ADSR.
  18. B-complex renoise head

    B-complex

    B-complex renoise head

    2,384 posts
    Since Jun 8, 2004
    In the first place it's different. Tracking technique is quite independent from common sequencers. Logic and Cubase deals with lots of things you are not using when you produce music, or to be more specific "dance" music.. Trackers are best when we're talking about "creative use of samples" there is a big tracking knowledge in the time when VST did not exist, people were able to simulate effects like delay, reverb, flange, chorus, filters and so on just with intelligent using of samples and tracker. With trackers you can create very quickly things that you have to program in sequencer for much longer time...

    ---
    btw I've made a small clip in renoise so you can check it out how does it actually sound.. It took me about 10 minutes to make it including choosing samples .. so you can make a picture
  19. B-complex renoise head

    B-complex

    B-complex renoise head

    2,384 posts
    Since Jun 8, 2004
    it's actually just 2 patterns..
  20. B-complex renoise head

    B-complex

    B-complex renoise head

    2,384 posts
    Since Jun 8, 2004
    omg I suck when it comes to uploading attachments :)) hopefully it will be allright now .. here
  21. ohmegav

    ohmegav

    ohmegav

    621 posts
    Since Nov 24, 2003
    Is there a point on using kontakt or battery within Renoise to trigger drum samples?

    I own renoise, but I've been procrastinating about trying this out...:zzz:
  22. Point of Reference Banned by DOA

    Point of Reference

    Point of Reference Banned by DOA

    21,800 posts
    Since Feb 12, 2001
    not really. Aero studio's (slow in dev) sound quality crushes any other sequencer app out there right now, and its about $79...why you may ask; because it does 64bit internal processing instead of 32 bit (and no, you don't need a 64bit processor to process in 64 bits).

    Granted, many of your "pro" sequencers are aimed at normal musicians; those that don't know/care about "sampling" or audio processing. Cause if you notice, the majority of pro studios run protools, which is by and large an audio sequencing app, rather limited in its midi capability (bar latest versions where they've stepped it up).


    never judge the quality of a product by its price tag:script:
  23. Point of Reference Banned by DOA

    Point of Reference

    Point of Reference Banned by DOA

    21,800 posts
    Since Feb 12, 2001
    the filters bascially...well that and being able to layer single hits without being really cluttered. But other than that, no...not really.
  24. B-complex renoise head

    B-complex

    B-complex renoise head

    2,384 posts
    Since Jun 8, 2004
    :script:
  25. Point of Reference Banned by DOA

    Point of Reference

    Point of Reference Banned by DOA

    21,800 posts
    Since Feb 12, 2001
  26. J Swift Guest

    J Swift

    J Swift Guest

    4,760 posts
    Since May 21, 2003
    If you do exactly the same mix and arrangement in latest Renoise vs Cubase SX2, the differences are almost too subtle to notice...

    I always perceived a slightly sharper, more defined sound quality in SX, but then GUI's can slightly warp the way you hear sometimes...

    In fact, Renoises' built-in sampling has noticably better timing than doing the same thing in Logic/SX/Pro Tools using Kontakt/Battery/EXS, and Renoises' sample playback engine is significantly superiour in terms of sound quality/aliasing... (see those tests on Simon V's website)

    You can also run more plug-ins/softsynths with Renoise (at least on my machine) - I've never been over 50% CPU in Renoise.

    So, in theory it should be Renoise with the heafty price tag...!


    Logic/SX/etc... were really designed for use in professional recording studios to track & mix bands and live performances... They're not exactly optimized for electronic music... Digital Performer on the Mac seems to be better suited to electronic music... Still I use Logic & SX whenever I need to work with audio.
  27. ohmegav

    ohmegav

    ohmegav

    621 posts
    Since Nov 24, 2003

    I'm curious about one thing: How would u go about using the chopped drum breaks technique? Stuff like chopping a break and loading in Kontakt and programming via midi (like u would do it in a sequencer like cubase) is not possible on a tracker? What's your approach to drum programming on a tracker? Do u chop it up and program the break directly in renoise/buzz/whatever? or do u use the sample offset command?




    That's so true. In my last track I had about 6 z3ta running in real time in renoise, no chokes nor pops nor clicks. Everything under 50% cpu usage. Amazing. With 2 or 3 z3ta in cubase it starts to fart. :thumbdown



    @ POR: nice track dude! :twothumbs:
  28. B-complex renoise head

    B-complex

    B-complex renoise head

    2,384 posts
    Since Jun 8, 2004
    I personally prefer to chop my breaks into the reason instruments.. it require some work but you can drop that break into new songs very quickly and after that you just play notes.. using sample offset command is also way to go but you have to write those commands in every new track you will use it.
  29. ohmegav

    ohmegav

    ohmegav

    621 posts
    Since Nov 24, 2003
    I don't wanna shift the talk here to drum programming, but I'm "studying" (= observing by listening and paying a lot of attention) stuff like breakcore, ragga-jungle drum programming, and artists like Amon Tobin, Aphex Twin and Enduser.


    I'd like to use my beloved renoise to do it (would like to ditch cubase for good) but looks like every one has a different approach to drum programming. That's why I'm asking how u do it on your tracker.


    Let’s keep it about renoise/trackers though. Sorry. :)
  30. J Swift Guest

    J Swift

    J Swift Guest

    4,760 posts
    Since May 21, 2003
    Yeah, the typical way to chop up a break in Renoise is just to copy it to a load of spare sample slots and trim each one... This is exactly how you'd do it on a hardware sampler (pre Recycle)... You can either treat every beat as a different sample, or you can spread them across the keyboard...

    If you want some REALLY intricate programming (i.e. a VERY fast way of working) you might want to consider the 900 offset technique.

    (You might already know this, but for anyone who doesn't) - If you have a break loaded into sample slot 1 - Trimmed so it loops perfectly - You can use the 0900 command to access different portions of the break:

    c-401 0900
    c-401 0910
    c-401 0920
    c-401 0930
    etc...
    up to:
    c-401 09f0

    It's in HEX - So every increment of 10 will give you a different beat in a 4/4 loop.

    Doing this you can program complex sequences VERY quickly - You learn the break - 0900 is almost always a bass drum, 0940 is almost always a snare - Obviously you hold down "z" to create a long list of samples - Hold down "9" in the right place to get ready for some beat programming - And then you tap away 18cba7320ffe02 etc...

    The only problem may be if the beat isn't perfectly tight...

    So a lot of breakcore guys process the break in Soundforge first, using auto-region and the tempo ruler... You can tighten up the break to perfection, and also mix in drum machines samples to add punch and definition...

    Also:

    c-401 0940 00e4
    c-401 0940 00e3
    c-401 0940 00e2
    ..etc... and we've got some insane drill'n'bass rolls going on - That would be hassle to program in SX tbh...

    Also, smooth sample reverse:

    c-401 0900 0b00


    You can get really fast when you've done a few tunes like this - You can program insane panning, offsetting, pitching, sample reversals, etc... I used to do a lot of stuff like this last year.

    Now I mainly use Renoise to trigger an external sampler - My favorite thing about Renoise is the lack of visual cues... In SX/Logic I always get distracted by what I see on screen...
Production