The E-MU megathread

Production | Aug 25, 2015

  1. sedo

    sedo

    sedo

    71 posts
    Since Nov 1, 2007
    Hey all. Loving my new toy but am stuck with something:

    Fracture & Neptune Part Two


    I love the layered grimeyness they achieve when layering the low end and distorted low cut 808's but cannot for the life of me reproduce anything similar. I have made a low bass in once voice and a distorted high cut version in another voice and they play at the same time when auditioning but not matter what sort of filters I place on and automate on each voice I can't get that 'interaction' between the 2 layers.

    Am I missing something in the process? Their filters seem to interact to give that distorted loveliness whereas I'm not getting that with my approach.

    Hope I make sense. Kudos for any tips...
  2. Salient land of the dead

    Salient

    Salient land of the dead

    3,023 posts
    Since May 1, 2005
    Audio would help!
  3. alien_brain and sedo like this.

    mreznik

    mreznik

    mreznik

    272 posts
    Since Nov 13, 2014
    Just keep effecting/resampling/filtering and distorting. You'll not get that exact sound but the more you play with it the better you'll understand what the relationship is and what works.

    On this video it's a high and sub sample being filter modulated with the same source (mod wheel) but different filters (high pass/ low pass) and at different depths/starting frequencies.

    A lot of the sound/vibe is the resampling and filtering that goes on before, the gelling and relationship comes from the modulation depth on the final filters.

    Much easier with a mixing desk between the sampler and your interface.
    alien_brain and sedo like this.
  4. 3quincy and sedo like this.

    deleted

    deleted

    deleted

    185 posts
    Since Jan 30, 2010
    I use multiple presets in the EMU each with a different voice and modulation, eg: one for the sub and one for the mid/top. These then run from separate midi channels from Logic so essentially the EMU is playing as 2 instruments (sub and mids/tops). I then mess around with the filters and modulation of each preset in real time until i get the interaction of sounds that I like.

    Another way is make a preset for each bass part (sub and tops) with filters that you like then combine them together into 1 preset using the links function. This has the effect of making the bass one instrument as a single preset is being played, however it gives you control over each part because they are coming from separate presets.

    That make sense?!
    3quincy and sedo like this.
  5. mreznik likes this.

    sedo

    sedo

    sedo

    71 posts
    Since Nov 1, 2007
    Both very useful responses. Thanks a lot chaps.

    OK great. I will try this tonight. Let me know if this approach is what you mean/will work?

    Step 1
    Create Sub Layer (Voice 1)
    1. 808 (or any bassy sample!) from Ableton ---> Mackie Desk (I have one)
    2. Distort with Mackie gain (not too much so as to keep enough sub/low end)
    3. Sample in Emu
    4. Add low pass filter and set cutoff to be controlled by Ableton MIDI out

    Step 2
    Create Top Layer (Voice 2)
    1. Resample a low cutted version of above sample
    2. Distort ---> resample
    3. Add high pass filter and set cutoff to be controlled by same Ableton MIDI out info as above (with a different depth/%)

    Step 3
    Make crazy noises

    _________________


    When I nail this I will post results and send you/mreznik beer.
    mreznik likes this.
  6. sedo likes this.

    deleted

    deleted

    deleted

    185 posts
    Since Jan 30, 2010
    Yeah that should work. You can also have totally different filter movement on each voice which is what I do to try and get each part to 'talk' to the other. Eg: slow sine lfo on sub and maybe just filter envelope on the mids.

    I've been messing a lot with mine today so will see if i can put something up showing the layers.
    sedo likes this.
  7. sedo

    sedo

    sedo

    71 posts
    Since Nov 1, 2007
    Rispekk
  8. mreznik

    mreznik

    mreznik

    272 posts
    Since Nov 13, 2014
    Yeah in the video you can hear fracture has put something like a filter envelope controlling the cutoff quite subtly on the first/starting 808 sample before he splits them which gives it a bit of movement early on.
    Gives the distortion and filters something to grab on to as you continue processing.

    Good luck!
  9. sedo likes this.

    deleted

    deleted

    deleted

    185 posts
    Since Jan 30, 2010
    @sedo I just did this fairly quickly as a demonstration.



    I've used 2 presets here. 1 preset is the subs, the 2nd is the mids/tops.

    Because each is a separate preset they can each have their own filter modulation. The way I have it set is that preset 1 is on midi channel 1, and preset 2 is on midi channel 2. These are each recorded onto their own track in Logic at the same time. You can obviously program different notes for each part if you like but for simplicity I left them the same.

    If you look at the link on soundcloud you'll be able to see the pic better which shows the waveforms of each layer so you can see how the modulation for each part is different.

    EDIT:

    Another 5 mins of playing about just as an example.



    It's probably worth mentioning that I've done no resampling at all with these. It's just a single sample being modulated in presets. To beef it up and get the grit like in Fracture's vid you'd want to do 1 modulation. Resample (I do that directly in the E-MU), gain/distort/whatever you want. Modulate and resample again - as many times as you need/want.

    I try and limit myself to just do a single pass (as above) when making tunes because it's easy to get lost in resampling and lose the idea of the track. Then I go back and resample once I feel like I've got an idea for a track down.

    I'm by no means a master at this yet, and I'm sure there are others who can offer up some more/better tips, either way I hope these examples have helped.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
    sedo likes this.
  10. sedo and deleted like this.

    ja-ki

    ja-ki

    ja-ki

    1,653 posts
    Since Nov 30, 2008
    sedo and deleted like this.
  11. ja-ki

    ja-ki

    ja-ki

    1,653 posts
    Since Nov 30, 2008
  12. barnski

    barnski

    barnski

    138 posts
    Since Feb 11, 2009
    Does anyone know how I can use my Mac to write a bank to CD that I can transfer to my Emu via my SCSI CD drive?
    I'd like to load the adventure kid waveforms into my sampler
  13. deleted likes this.

    sedo

    sedo

    sedo

    71 posts
    Since Nov 1, 2007
    Many thanks @deleted for the effort. Is close to what I want to achieve but lacks the distortion. I guess because both samples are clean and not that clipped in the emu (especially the top layer)?
    deleted likes this.
  14. sedo

    sedo

    sedo

    71 posts
    Since Nov 1, 2007
    Yes mate, these noises are getting close to where I want to be! Is this the same method as deleted used (2 presets for sub and tops with different filters and cutoff freq modulations)?

    It's the bit where the two layers interact and distort in that unique Emu way that I'm stuck at...
  15. sedo

    sedo

    sedo

    71 posts
    Since Nov 1, 2007
    And ja-ki takes the biscuit with these noises @ 36sec onwards! Filth! :slayer:

  16. sedo likes this.

    ja-ki

    ja-ki

    ja-ki

    1,653 posts
    Since Nov 30, 2008

    lol thanks for posting this! I thought I took it off of soundcloud, as I couldn't find it :D


    The sounds from 0:54 onwards are the same as in the clyp.it link and iirc I took my flatmates guitar and strung a powerchord and recorded it from my desk into the sampler. I can't exactly remember the signal chain, but I think it was pretty much just guitar into desk into EMU withouth anything going on. Most of it happens in the sampler. Downpitched A LOT, clipped the SHIT out of it, reduced sample rate (makes the distortion a lot more pleasing and less nasty) and then overdrove (ìs that english?) the highpass filter and put some voice chorus on. All EMU, except for the guitar.

    The sounds before that (from 0:36 onwards) are a bit more complex. I remember using a shit load of guitar FX and a bass guitar this time. But what I did: I recorded a pretty simple note into the sampler, rerecorded it through the guitar FX and turned the pedalknobs in realtime. I jammed quite a bit and kept the good ones. Of course a lot of filter action going on here and also a lot of resampling, but no computers or VSTs harmed :teeth:

    ah btw, for the bit starting at 0:54: http://www.dogsonacid.com/attachments/b-000-sqr-push-zip.127278/

    and a little explanation from me:


    sedo likes this.
  17. ja-ki

    ja-ki

    ja-ki

    1,653 posts
    Since Nov 30, 2008
    Something that just came to mind: If you ever read Optical's great AMA on reddit: I disagree with him on the cabling and noise thing. First: My cabling is short but not of high quality and a mess basically. I have almost no noise even after resampling several times through the analog ins and outs through my desk. Also the EMU can sample itself at 16-20 bits which also means almost no quality loss. And luckily I have an E4XT Ultra which has digital ins and outs so I can send stuff to my FX unit (KSP8, lovely thing, must have, couldn't live without anymore) without converting the signal once. So even with a basic setup you can get your EMU to sound pretty hifi if you wanted to but a bit of hiss and noise is part of a good samples charme. Huge recommendation for the Big Muff Bass Pi at this point!
  18. RIvalP

    RIvalP

    RIvalP

    185 posts
    Since Apr 6, 2014

    I agree with you. Think he was a little OCD with the whole cabling thing. Was a great Reddit interview though; I admire the man's passion.
  19. RIvalP

    RIvalP

    RIvalP

    185 posts
    Since Apr 6, 2014
    Also, you should do another bass pack!
  20. satoribeats

    satoribeats

    satoribeats

    82 posts
    Since Nov 8, 2010
    Ja -ki funny how you mention the muff been looking for one for awhile after talking shop with gridlok on Facebook. Been wondering if the vintage one is worh the extra dough.
  21. ja-ki

    ja-ki

    ja-ki

    1,653 posts
    Since Nov 30, 2008
    I don't know whether the one that's lying around here is vintage or not, it just sounds awesome. I have access to a lot of guitar pedals of all sorts (even some esoteric ones) and the muff is my favorite by far.

    Hehe, gonna do a basspack v3 sometime in the future, gotta do other stuff first though. Basspacks assemble themselves after many hours of going through old projects.
  22. deleted

    deleted

    deleted

    185 posts
    Since Jan 30, 2010
    Correct! I'd normally resample more and clip it but for the sake of a demo just didn't bother!
  23. milleborne

    milleborne

    milleborne

    65 posts
    Since Mar 27, 2015
    so sick... but the zip doesn't open. any way to repost?
  24. sedo

    sedo

    sedo

    71 posts
    Since Nov 1, 2007
    So I spent a day playing this weekend and didn't get what I wanted. I created 2 similar layers (like in the above vid) in 2 different voices but playing them together is just like a normal multi-layered bass (sub and tops). Both were set to modulate a hp/lp filter on each voice but didn't get any remotely interesting noises.

    Any idea on what sort of filters/Q settings are being used on the above fracture & neptune video? I can recreate the whole thing very easily but when it comes to modulating the 2 voices' filters from the same source (mod wheel) I just don't get the same result.

    Any ideas?
  25. sedo likes this.

    2000&X

    2000&X

    2000&X

    194 posts
    Since Oct 29, 2014
    No filter on sub and experiment with phaser/BP/HP filter on mids modulated by an LFO and more movement with filter envelope. Try messing around with negative values on the envelope too. make sure you set your sub and mid voices in different groups.
    sedo likes this.
  26. sedo likes this.

    mreznik

    mreznik

    mreznik

    272 posts
    Since Nov 13, 2014
    Try soloing the sub, set the cutoff to the lowest you want it (should be very little signal above 100-120hz for example). Have a small amount of modulation linked to the modwheel, maybe 20%? Try playing a few notes and moving the mod wheel around. Does it sound good? Add more resonance or less if it's too thin sounding (4-pole low pass is probably best).

    Once you've got some interest on the sub solo the high voice. To get those boo-wowp noises it sounds to me like there is already a rendered high-pass with resonance enveloped down quite quickly to get that 'pew' screechy 808. So you're mid/high layer should already have some movement before you filter it again. Stick another lp 4 pole on this and do the same with the modwheel as before, maybe try inverting the filter direction (-50%) but use more modulation than on the sub layer. The two filters interacting/overlapping/fighting with each other is where the interesting noises poke through, I find.

    I've sat and played with this before but haven't got the same sound, I think that'll be hard. I did end up with some nice bass sounds though with lots of movement. A small amount of chorus over the whole group can add some 90's dust at the end as well.
    sedo likes this.
  27. sedo

    sedo

    sedo

    71 posts
    Since Nov 1, 2007
    Great advice, cheers. I don't want to replicate these exact sounds, I just want to be able to create a similar effect as I have plenty of my own bass notes I'd like to try this approach with to get my own noises.
  28. mreznik likes this.

    sedo

    sedo

    sedo

    71 posts
    Since Nov 1, 2007
    So it's basically 2 LPF's modulated at different rates and set at different initial values I'm guessing? Will give this a go.

    Quick one: I'm just using 2 different voices in the same group for sub/mids. Putting samples in different groups doesn't make a difference does it?
    mreznik likes this.
  29. mreznik

    mreznik

    mreznik

    272 posts
    Since Nov 13, 2014
    Yeah, different depths of modulation to catch the interesting bits.

    For this I don't think it matters about the groups really. My understanding is that grouping items allows you to add fx over the top or use fx sends. Check the manual for specifics lol.
  30. ja-ki

    ja-ki

    ja-ki

    1,653 posts
    Since Nov 30, 2008

    check my description. it says you need to rename to .e4b
Production