The Loudness War is Over?

Production | Mar 19, 2015

  1. GLAGOL Bad Mint On

    GLAGOL

    GLAGOL Bad Mint On

    173 posts
    Since Feb 8, 2015
  2. Mania You people make me sick

    Mania

    Mania You people make me sick

    1,376 posts
    Since Feb 3, 2014
    Interesting yes, and will benefit the majority of consumer music. But for dance music, means nothing. DJ's will be playing at max no matter what, and the louder tunes will always be a part of that.
  3. GLAGOL Bad Mint On

    GLAGOL

    GLAGOL Bad Mint On

    173 posts
    Since Feb 8, 2015
    Yeah, I figured that much myself. Although it will really be interesting to see some dnb with actual dynamics lol :teeth:
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2015
  4. D-audi

    D-audi

    D-audi

    311 posts
    Since May 20, 2014
    It's called the trim knob. The only reason for having stupid loud tunes is for DJs auditioning your tunes on soundcloud. I must admit that it is a pretty good reason to keep competitive with RMS, but once it's in the hands of the end listener it doesn't matter.

    As far as home listeners all music software will be headed for automatic loudness adjustments, as young people buy as much old music as they do new music. Fact. The difference in loudness is intolerable, and automatically compensating for this is a no-brainer for maximising the user experience for iTunes/Spotify/etc.
  5. Kriasb, reTRenD, sicduk and 15 others like this.

    Laowai&Gweilo Feat MC Anus

    Laowai&Gweilo

    Laowai&Gweilo Feat MC Anus

    351 posts
    Since Mar 24, 2012
    IF U DONT REDLINE U DONT HEDLINE INNIT M7
    Kriasb, reTRenD, sicduk and 15 others like this.
  6. index0

    index0

    index0

    3,385 posts
    Since Mar 8, 2006
  7. D-audi

    D-audi

    D-audi

    311 posts
    Since May 20, 2014
    Damn skippy. Lol.
  8. Killerindustries :(

    Killerindustries

    Killerindustries :(

    410 posts
    Since Feb 7, 2014
    I always push the master when I shove a preview on soundcloud or send a promo or whatever, when its time for the mastering stage though, I crank that sucka downnnn babeh.
  9. Killerindustries likes this.

    Laowai&Gweilo Feat MC Anus

    Laowai&Gweilo

    Laowai&Gweilo Feat MC Anus

    351 posts
    Since Mar 24, 2012
    Do you bring the master down then smash it yourself or get someone else to finalise for you?

    I have played Jaguar out a couple of times and it blows the crowd away, heavy skills dude.
    Killerindustries likes this.
  10. Rogue Trooper and HouseAddict like this.

    ROKONE Hello Tyranny, goodbye gunz.

    ROKONE

    ROKONE Hello Tyranny, goodbye gunz.

    15,924 posts
    Since Jan 25, 2005
    I can honestly say that in 24 years of playing records I have never ever bought or played one because it was louder or sounded fatter than other tunes, if anyone has ever done this YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG,!
    Rogue Trooper and HouseAddict like this.
  11. Killerindustries :(

    Killerindustries

    Killerindustries :(

    410 posts
    Since Feb 7, 2014

    Bringing the whole mix down to either -3 or -6 if it's time for someone else to master. The Jaguar ep was made at a stage where I had no idea what I was doing, and it shows haha.

    I usually like to do everything myself, although labels will usually have their go-to mastering dudes. This has it's pluses and negatives.
  12. D-audi

    D-audi

    D-audi

    311 posts
    Since May 20, 2014
    If anyone rolls their own, I highly recommend Voxengo Elephant 4. Specifically, it's "EL-4" algorhythm. I was having everything mastered by an M.E. release or not but the money is killing me at the moment, and updating from v3 to v4 has been saving my ass. You can edit the parameters for transient shape etc. and a bit of trial and error makes EL-4 a game changer. Fucking wonderful.
  13. Laowai&Gweilo Feat MC Anus

    Laowai&Gweilo

    Laowai&Gweilo Feat MC Anus

    351 posts
    Since Mar 24, 2012
    Knowing what your doing is obviously a pointless aftermarket option.
  14. Laowai&Gweilo Feat MC Anus

    Laowai&Gweilo

    Laowai&Gweilo Feat MC Anus

    351 posts
    Since Mar 24, 2012
    Louder I could give a fuck less about, as said before every DJ mixer has a gain control (I hope), fatter though? I have purchased tracks just because they sound fat as fuck because I know they're gonna knock people on their ass on a dance floor.
  15. freeradical8 D&B snob Staff Member

    freeradical8

    freeradical8 D&B snob Staff Member

    10,064 posts
    Since Jun 27, 2009
    *shrug* i like when tracks are loud. once you put the gain on max there is only so loud you can make it and i know a lot of tracks from the 90s i put on full blast and they are still not that loud in my car. cant stand that.
  16. Rogue Trooper and D-audi like this.

    HouseAddict

    HouseAddict

    HouseAddict

    3,424 posts
    Since May 26, 2004
    really that's nothing to do with anything but the overall gain of the track. If you bounce out the tracks with a gain on to get them closer to 0db or you have an amp that you can drive without getting it to hit Max volume old tracks sound awesome as fuck because every sound has so much space to move and occupy instead of wall of sound mix downs. They all start to sound the same after a while with little dynamic range other than loud. Imo
    Rogue Trooper and D-audi like this.
  17. D-audi likes this.

    freeradical8 D&B snob Staff Member

    freeradical8

    freeradical8 D&B snob Staff Member

    10,064 posts
    Since Jun 27, 2009
    well, i guess to me that's the mastering of a track. i dunno i shouldnt have to go in and edit every quiet download i have. i have 'master gain pro' software or something like it and i cant get it figured out as i have no idea about 0db and all that. all i know is my car goes to level 40 and that's the highest it will go. if a track from the 90s is set on 40 and not as loud as a current track that is on 30, well that's annoying and not preferred in my book.
    D-audi likes this.
  18. D-audi

    D-audi

    D-audi

    311 posts
    Since May 20, 2014
    I agree with both of these statements! It's finding middle ground imo. I hate squashed tracks, and I hate when I can't even get a track loud enough to hear it on my headphones over the subway.
  19. HouseAddict

    HouseAddict

    HouseAddict

    3,424 posts
    Since May 26, 2004
    Totally agree there bro, what I mean I guess is a quietly or lower volume recording doesn't equal bad mix down necessarily , if your volume went up say an extra 20 to cover that gain you're missing, would the track sound mean do you think? A well balanced mix recorded at low level will sound quieter obv if your amp can't hack it

    Good example for me is a track I'm working on, I recorded it far too low so when playing off my phone in to the car I have the vol at max and it's only just hitting the loudness I want. However when auditioning it with someone on here where they've got decent listening gear (where cranking the volume isn't an issue,) they thought the mixdown sounded pretty good because they aren't having issues because they can gain their gear sufficiently so it is at a listening level. It's why dj mixers have massive gain so you can balance the relative volume of each track to the rest of the mix

    I guess I just mean low volume recording doesn't equal bad mastering necessarily, it often just means low volume. If that makes sense? :smile:
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
  20. Abyss1

    Abyss1

    Abyss1

    9,039 posts
    Since Sep 7, 2005
    "You must be out of your head if your system aint up in the red"
    -Madlib
  21. surplus SURPLUS

    surplus

    surplus SURPLUS

    1,798 posts
    Since Nov 6, 2001
    This argument will go on forever and a day. The fact is that there is only so loud systems and amps can go, for example the pre amps in Apple products are very quiet imo, and tracks with a low RMS volume I struggle to hear esp with a lot of back ground noise. The other thing to remember is that systems work on peak volume not RMS.
    Definitely a balance is needed I like dynamics I like feeling a kick in my chest in a club. A lot of people would like -3db crest left in after mastering, not sure if this is realistic but can see the point. With more broadcasters though adopting standards for loudness, there may come a day of some sort of standard for average volume probably a long way down the line though until its adopted across the board.
  22. SafeandSound Mastering Engineer

    SafeandSound

    SafeandSound Mastering Engineer

    524 posts
    Since Apr 25, 2009
  23. freeradical8 likes this.

    Rogue Trooper Giant Smurf

    Rogue Trooper

    Rogue Trooper Giant Smurf

    4,990 posts
    Since Jan 22, 2004
    When I'm DJing, I pull most modern D&B tunes down between 3-3.5 dB. Does a lot for clarity and means the basslines aren't fighting for space too much, so I only have to make minor EQ adjustments. There are some really nasty-sounding tunes that I have to pull down 4-6dB and they still sound horribly distorted. I never let Traktor's autogain do the work because it's ALWAYS wrong by at least 1-2dB and smashes everything into the red on a double drop and I'd rather avoid the limiter.

    The current D&B tune I'm working on I'm aiming for about -8dB RMS, because it sounds horrible above that. it's a quite mellow tune and not a dirty banger, so I'd rather it sounds good than smash the crap out of it.

    I remember Skynet was lamenting the common practice of smashing the fuck out of everything on his FB and emphasizing the virtues of gain staging.
    freeradical8 likes this.
  24. Rogue Trooper Giant Smurf

    Rogue Trooper

    Rogue Trooper Giant Smurf

    4,990 posts
    Since Jan 22, 2004
    Red LED Redemption.
Production